Here is another question from one of our readers. In the process of answering this question I learned something new (to me) and it is something that is very important to share.
Here is the question emailed to us -
" If you are not hooked up to any external power, and not running the generator, and your battery switch off, but the inverter switch is on,
will you have AC power at the inverter outlets? I do, and for the first
time ever that I can remember, the battery was on low just today. A big
surprise to me!!"
When I read this question I began to write that this had to be something wrong. If the battery switch is OFF how could there be 12 volt power to invert to 110 volts into the outlets connected to the inverter? I proceeded to write an answer about all of the things that could be wrong. I also went into an explanation of what the inverter wall switch is and does (which I will include here in this article). Then I decided before I sent off my answer to go to the Roadtrek Electric Simulator and do a simulation test of what happened in the Roadtrek that initiated this question. I tried it with two Roadtrek year's models. The first simulation was done for a 2010 Roadtrek 190 - with the Tripp-Lite 750 watt inverter/converter/charger all in one unit. The second simulation was done for a 2004 Roadtrek 190 - with no Tripp Lite but a separate inverter unit and a separate converter/charger unit. The third and last simulation was done for a 2010 Roadtrek Sprinter - which has a different Tripp-Lite all in one.
The results that I found surprised me. With the BATTERY SWITCH OFF and the INVERTER WALL SWITCH ON - and no other power sources such as generator of shore power, THERE IS 110 volt POWER IN THE INVERTER CONNECTED OUTLETS for both the 2010 Roadtreks - both the 190 and the Sprinters. (The 2010 models are the last models represented in the simulator but with the 190 models up to 2013 and maybe 2014 the wiring and components are the same (providing none of the new ETrek like electric components have been installed.) The Sprinters without ETrek components are the same as well. They contain a Tripp-Lite all on one inverter/converter/charger.
The 2004 Roadtrek 190 simulation found what would be expected - with the Battery Switch OFF and the Inverter Switch ON there is NO POWER in the inverter connected outlets. None of this applies to Roadtreks before 2006.
For the Roadtreks 2006 and after, if you leave the Inverter Wall Switch ON, and the battery switch is OFF you are drawing power from the batteries into the outlets and anything that is connected to those outlets - the TV, the Home Entertainment Center unit is draining your coach battery (ies). To me this is a very bad situation. While most of us have been believing that if the battery switch is OFF there is no 12 volt power coming through, it is coming through the Tripp-Lite and into those outlets.
I have read many comments and questions about the Roadtrek regarding mystery drains on coach batteries. Now we know one more place to check if your batteries are draining. Also be aware that with the Inverter Wall Switch ON even when the
Battery Switch is OFF those outlets are LIVE and 110 volts can give
quite a jolt! The bottom line is only turn on the Inverter Wall Switch when you want to use the power in the inverted outlets right then. When you are finished using those outlets with the inverter, turn off the inverter wall switch. I know that some keep the Inverter Wall Switch ON when plugged into shore power to take advantage of the Tripp-Lite's power protection functions. If you do this, make sure to turn that Inverter Wall Switch OFF when you unplug from shore power!
I have explained the Inverter Wall Switch in the Roadtrek before but I will explain it here again.
The wall switch on the inverter is actually a remote control switch -
there are three states of the inverter - Off, Charge Only, Auto/Remote. These three states are found on the switch on the inverter unit itself. That switch on the inverter unit is generally left on the Auto/Remote position. The wall switch remotely controls those last two
functions - Auto/Remote = which is the function that includes sending
inverter power to the wall outlets - and Charge Only which puts no power
in the outlets but allows the inverter's charger function to charge the
batteries when running the engine, plugged in, or running the generator. With the wall switch ON you are in Auto/Remote function. With the wall
switch Off you are in Charge Only function.
Tripp Lite has its own remote control panel with more functions and
indicators, but Roadtrek made its own switch and attached it to the
remote port on the inverter unit (the port looks like a network cable
connection and uses the same type of plug and wire). The Tripp Lite panel is larger than the Roadtrek switch and
is available as an option from Tripp Lite.
If you do not have a Tripp-Lite inverter, test this for yourself with a volt meter and putting the Inverter Wall Switch ON and the Battery Switch OFF and carefully test the outlets connected to the inverter for power.
Off-topic but I wanted to mention that I ordered the Plug Dog you posted about. I think it will make life on the road even easier. Can't wait to try it out.
ReplyDeleteI have the Tripp Lite inverter. Do I have this right.....inverter switch ''off'' when plugged into shore power and while driving. While driving, your coach battery will charge. Inverter switch ''on'' when using generator or if no power at all. If no power - you will use/drain coach battery. What I don’t understand is the battery disconnect switch. While driving, should that be off too (no blue light)? Basically, everything off while driving?
ReplyDeleteFL Donna - Inverter wall switch on ONLY when you want to use 110 volt power FROM THE BATTERIES ONLY. All other times the inverter wall switch should be OFF. You do not need the inverter wall switch on to charge the batteries. They will charge when you are driving, when you run the generator, and when plugged into shore power with the Inverter wall switch OFF. Not to confuse the issue but they will also charge when the Inverter wall switch is on. When driving AND you have no reason to need battery power in the coach section, keep the Battery Disconnect Switch OFF. If you want to run your fridge on battery power while driving then put the Battery Disconnect Switch ON.
DeleteThanks. I need to look in the manual for info on the fridge. I got the new all electric fridge. I need to find out if it gets power while I drive? I would think it does. That is one thing I'd like to have power for while driving.
ReplyDeleteIf it is wired the way my all electric fridge was wired (not by Roadtrek) you do need to turn the battery switch ON when driving and you want the fridge on. It will then be powered through the batteries and while you drive the batteries will recharge. You do not need the Inverter switch on for this - that fridge better be a 12v/110 v powered fridge. When we start on a trip we turn on the battery switch, turn up the temp in the fridge and go. We leave the battery switch on the whole trip so that the refrigerator stays on and cold. When we get home, the fridge is turned down to off and the battery switch is turned off.
DeleteHI Mike: I have a rt 2008 190 pop. I"m boondocking right now and no power to the receptacles when inverter is on. BTW if I turn off the battery switch when boondocking I have no power at all to the interior. i.e. lights. I did change the coach batteries a while back but I thought I'd bought the same kind: wet cell deep cycle. I have no idea how to reset the dip switches or even how to access the inverter. Would you say a visit to a rt dealer is necessary? Frank Smith
ReplyDeleteThis is not Mike's site and this is not Mike. YOUR BATTERY SWITCH MUST BE ON FOR THE INVERTER TO WORK AND SUPPLY POWER TO THE INVERTER OUTLETS. ALSO - these outlets are on a GFCI circuit and you need to make sure the GFCI switch on one of those outlets has not tripped. Look at all of the outlets - mine is on the outlet inside the rear most side door at the bottom by the step. Follow this link and it should help you find your inverter as it should be in just about the same place as mine. You have a TrippLite750 inverter/converter/charger and if you look at my other article on The Inverter (go to the how to page for a link) you should find a link to the manual in that article. If not use the contact us link at the side of the page and I will email you a pdf of it or the link. In that manual there are instructions on how to reset the inverter. Also make sure all circuit breakers are on and not tripped. For the most part the only time you need to change the dip switch for the batteries on the inverter is when you change them to AGM. If all of this does not solve the problem then you may need a trip to an RT service center - but I doubt that you need to.
DeleteFRANK SMITH - Here is the link to finding the inverter -
Deletehttp://roadtrek190popular.blogspot.com/2013/02/in-search-of-elusive-roadtrek-inverter.html
The inverter in our Roadtreck 2012 versatile as stopped working. What should I do?
ReplyDeleteThere is a reset process in the Tripp-Lite 750 manual to follow. There is also a circuit breaker button on the inverter itself. See our article specifically on the inverter - link on our How To page for details on the inverter and a link to the manual. Beyond that it will need to go to a Roadtrek service center and with a 2012 you should still be under warranty.
DeleteUsing a digital multimeter I suspected that my coach batteries were not when plugged into shore power with everything off. The inverter was set to the charge only position and there was no DC output. I also checked the voltage on the battery separator with the vehicle and coach batteries fully charged with a battery tender before checking. I got 12.45 volts at the battery and also at the battery terminal on the separator. On the coach side of the separator I got only about 5-6 VDC. All these readings with everything off and shore power plugged in. I removed and replaced the inverter and the battery separator. After applying shore power I could here the inverter running and checked the voltage at the coach batteries and found it to be 13.6 volts which according to the simulator should be correct for that state. When installing the new inverter I left the inverter output co0rd disconnected because I had no plans for any dry camping.
ReplyDeleteI then checked the voltage on the coach side terminal of the battery separtor and was expecting to see 13.6 volts but still only measured 5-6 VDC. I then went to the battery disconnect relay and determined that of the breakers were open. The breakers and 5amp relay control breakers all checked good. I then checked the voltage on eact
h pole of the relay. On coach battery or inverter pole I got about 12.6 VDC but on the opposite pole I measured 18-19 VDC which made no sense to me at all. I then noted that nothing on the monitor panel was working. I removed and reinstalled the remote network cable on the inverter and that was no help. Some this just does not make sense. i read somewhere that the relay coil activation voltage had been reduced to 5-6 VDC because the relay was never intended to be a continuous duty relay as used in the Roadtrek circuit.
I am buffaloed and looking for some help sorting this out.
Have you tried connecting the inverter output cord that you left off when you installed the new inverter/converter/charger? I am not sure what year and model Roadtrek you have- they vary greatly in the electric system - especially the newest models and also the models before 2005. I have been told that all electric goes through the inverter/converter/charger (mine is the TrippLite 750). Leaving off a connection could stop more than you think it should. Also the TrippLite should be set to AUTO/REMOTE - and not charge only. If you don't want to use the inverter part of it - just leave the inverter wall switch off inside. This essentially puts the TrippLite in "charge only". One battery measures 6v - both together measure 12+. Could it be that somewhere along the way one of the coach batteries (if you have two) is disconnected? I assume you have checked all fuses - everything 12 volt in the RT goes through a fuse. There is also a reset process on the TrippLite but if you removed one and installed another - that is not likely a problem. Not sure that I can help beyond this. I would like to know where you got a new battery separator - mine may or may not be working properly and I have only found three retailers on the other side of the country that sell the Sure Power 3015-200. Where did you get one? Also - join the Roadtrek Owners Group on Facebook - there are several members with a great deal of knowledge about the RT electrical systems from old to new.
DeleteI have connected the inverter output cord but that did not change anything. I will post this problem on face book and see if there is help there. I bought separator here: https://www.waytekwire.com/products?pSearch=sure%20power&sc=1348
ReplyDeleteThanks for your help.
What model and year Roadtrek? The inverter unit and the separator have little to do with each other. Did you buy the Sure Power 1315-200? Not really sure what you are referencing here - if we have communicated I am not connecting your name with any particular situation. Fill me in and I can try to help.
DeleteThis was regarding the alias James Finlayson reply posted above on 8/8. Sorry to have confused things. The Roadtrek is a 2006 RS and yes the separator was the SP 1315-200.
DeleteOK - now I understand. This is what I am beginning to understand about the battery separator and this may have no basis in anything other than my observations. I start the engine - same inverter and same 1315-200 - and the coach batteries are not charging. I can let it idle and still nothing. I start to drive and in twenty minutes to a half hour the coach batteries show as charging. The specs on the 1315-200 talk about voltage levels where it engages and disengages. I think that the engine battery has to reach a certain voltage- not as shown with the alternator charging the engine battery but with the actual voltage of the battery getting to the necessary to voltage and then the 1315-200 connects. I have also tried this the other way - plug in, Tripp Lite is charging the coach batteries but not the engine battery. After time, the engine battery starts charging also. This may be a factor of five year old coach batteries but my engine battery is new. The important thing is that after time the 1315-200 connects and both are getting charged. The RS does have a different model TrippLite than the 190 - one with more watts. The 190 TrippLite gives 750 watt max- but they should work the same way in function. Not sure if any of this helps. I feel that with what I am seeing my 1315-200 is working.
ReplyDeleteThat is helpful. The Tripp Lite I installed is also a 750 watt. I guess the next thing I need to do is to determine why the monitor panel is dead. It is fused off the pump fuse and that checks okay. Once I get that resolved I'll plug in to shore power and let it charge a couple of days and recheck everything again.
ReplyDelete