CARBON MONOXIDE, PROPANE, AND SMOKE DETECTORS

  Roadtrek installs detectors to protect you inside the Roadtrek from three dangers - carbon monoxide poisoning, a propane gas leak, and fire by detecting smoke.  Two of these detector units are hardwired to your 12 volt DC house battery(ies). One is powered by a common 9 volt DC battery or with the latest technology in detection devices, a 10 year battery built into the unit - and that is the smoke detector.

There are a few things to be aware of with each of these detectors - and also the history of what detectors Roadtrek has used or is currently using.  We will start with that first and then look at the different detectors. Prior to 2012/2013 Roadtrek used an individual carbon monoxide detector and an individual propane detector. Around 2012/2013 Roadtrek started using a combination carbon monoxide detector and propane detector- both functions in one unit. Roadtrek has and still uses an individual smoke detector. 

THE CO DETECTOR

CO (Carbon Monoxide) Detector alarms will go off when CO gas - engine exhaust, gasoline motor exhaust - either from your Roadtrek or your Roadtrek's generator - OR from another motor home that is running its engine or generator closed to your Roadtrek. CO gas will first cause dizziness, then will knock you out, and then without it being cleared, will kill you,  The CO Detector is hardwired to your house 12 volt battery(ies) as a safety precaution - and should never be replaced with a battery run home detector (for this and another reason). How does the gas come in?  It comes in from an open or partially open window, through the vent over your cargo doors for the A/C unit, from an open ceiling fan,  from a leak in your muffler or exhaust pipe, or from another close by RV with those problems. These units last just five years.  When they are about to expire in one month  (they have expiration dates), they will go off intermittently - without any CO present. This is to warn you that the CO detector must be replaced.  In the last month of its life span, it goes off continually - if it has not been replaced - to tell you that you absolutely MUST replace the unit NOW!  If you do not you will not be protected. If you pull the fuse to stop it - it will go off but you are NOT protected!  There is one other reason why these go off when there is no CO present - they monitor the voltage in your house battery(ies) and if the battery voltage is LOW the CO alarm goes off. This is to warn you that with a low house battery(ies) you are NOT PROTECTED from CO poisoning.  The CO Detector comes on with your Roadtrek battery switch and there will be a green light on the front of the detector indicating it is on and working. There is also a push button test button to push in and sound the alarm for you to test that it is working. The other reason why a CO Detector should not be replaced with a home detector but always with an RV CO Detector is that the operating temperature range of the RV CO detector is much wider a range from a home detector - it will work in much higher temperatures and much lower temperatures (the home detectors are made for inside a house where the temperatures are more controlled and not as hot and not as cold as the inside of an RV can get.

CARBON MONOXIDE IS LIGHTER THAN AIR AND FLOATS TO THE CEILING.

For this reason the CO Detector is installed by Roadtrek near the ceiling of the Roadtrek in the rear (usually on the passenger side). 

 

In this photo you are looking up from the bed to the ceiling - the CO Detector is just above the thermostat panel. 

THE PROPANE DETECTOR 

The Propane detector alarm will go off when propane gas is leaking into the inside of the Roadtrek. For many Roadtreks, your stove, your hot water heater, your three way refrigerator, and your furnace use propane gas that is located in a propane tank under the chassis of your Roadtrek. Any break or crack in a propane pipe, pipe joint, pipe connection, the propane tank - or any one of the appliances that use propane can put Propane gas into your Roadtrek.  Propane is EXPLOSIVE.  A propane fire does not go out until all of the propane gas is burned off. Propane fires have been known to burn an RV to its shell. Propane explosions can level a house. You only have to see a propane fire or a propane explosion once - either in person or in a photo or video to know the massive destruction it can cause. THIS is why you have a propane detector to warn you with enough time to get out and away from the RV.  Like the CO Detector, the propane detector has a five year lifespan and it will do the same thing that the CO Detector does. One month before its expiration date it will intermittently go off to warn you to replace it. In the expiration month it will go off constantly telling you that you were warned to replace it and now you MUST replace it NOW. Also it will go off if the house battery(ies) are low voltage. There are a few other things that will set off the propane alarm - any aerosol can sprayed near the propane detector will set off its alarm. Your dog passing gas next to the propane detector will set off the alarm. (I supposed a person doing the same can have the same result.)  The way to test a propane alarm is to use a cigarette gas lighter. Put the lighter next to the propane detector - close to it - and push down the button that releases the gas from the lighter - Do Not flick the wheel on the lighter - you do not want a flame. The propane detector should go off immediately. There is a light on the front of the propane detector to show you it is working. It is still advisable to do a test with a lighter.

 PROPANE IS HEAVIER THAN AIR AND SINKS TO NEAR THE FLOOR 

For this reason Roadtrek installed the individual propane detector near the floor under the bed to the aisle wall of the passenger side floor cabinet.

This is the propane detector that Roadtrek used before 2012/2013. This company has become a one man operation who is making them in his basement - and my experience with him and the replacement I bought from him was a terrible.

 

 

 

This is the Safe-T-Alert Propane Detector that I got to replace the original after the fiasco with the replacement for the original. 

THE COMBINATION CARBON MONOXIDE AND PROPANE DETECTOR

As said in 2012/2013 Roadtrek started using a combined in a single unit propane and CO detector. It does both jobs and protects you from both. Again - a five year life span with the same alarms going off as with the individual unit when it come to the month before its lifespan expires.  I have seen some Roadtrek photos were this is installed about halfway between the floor and ceiling. I asked for a photo of one of the combination detectors in a Roadtrek and this photo was kindly shared by Susan Howell. Here is a photo of the unit in her 2013 190 Popular Chevy chassis Roadtrek. You will see that is is installed near the floor.  Since this is an early year with the "new" combo detector Roadtrek may have moved it higher in later model years. There are videos showing mounting these mid-way. This is not up for debate - where yours is mounted in your Roadtrek is where it should be.  

 

THE SMOKE DETECTOR - FIRE ALARM  

 

The smoke detector that is in your Roadtrek is a regular house smoke detector. It is not hard wired to house battery(ies). It  is either run by a 9 volt DC put in the back battery or with newer replaced smoke detectors it has a 10 year never needs replacing until it dies in 10 years battery. The smoke detector is located in just about the worst place a smoke detector is to be placed -  in the front of the Roadtrek just across the aisle from the stove. If you buy a new smoke detector for your house it will have in its installation instructions that it should not be placed in a kitchen but at least 20 feet from your stove or cooking appliances. Of course, 20 feet in a Roadtrek in any direction is outside Roadtrek. So as a result the smoke detector will go off when you are cooking on the stove using an electric cooking appliance on the kitchen counter, etc.  Contrary to a belief I have heard from some (I say laughing), the smoke detector is not there to tell you that dinner is done cooking when the smoke alarm goes off. 😀

I have to share that we were heating a can of soup on the Roadtrek stove, the smoke detector went off. There was no smoke - just steam and not further than just above the pot. We tried using a two slice toaster on the kitchen counter and the smoke detector went off.  And to get it to go off we had to take if off the wall and take it outside and wave it around and then had to take the batteries out.  Even the ceiling fan exhausting out the invisible smoke did not shut the smoke alarm off.  It is important to have -  it can be funny at times but an electrical short that starts a fire  and it goes off it can save your life and your Roadtrek. But for this reason when it came time to replace the original in my Roadtrek and I found out that in this state stores are only allowed to sell 10 year smoke detectors - and you cannot take the battery out of it if it will not go off (the way you can with a 9 volt battery operated smoke detector alarm - I waited until we were on a trip in the Roadtrek and bought one in Pennsylvania, where both types can be sold, that uses a 9 volt battery.   With the 9 volt battery detectors - just like at home - if you hear it chirping and that does not stop - it needs a new 9 volt battery. And as is advised every New Year's Day - replace the battery in the 9 volt battery smoke detectors. 

REPLACING THE CO DETECTOR AND THE PROPANE DETECTOR

These two articles have been on this site for a long time. One is how to replace the individual CO Detector and the other is how to replace the individual propane detector.  When I replaced each I made some simple modifications to the wiring to make it easy to replace each when the time came again. The modifications make an easy job even easier! 

REPLACING THE CO DETECTOR 

 

REPLACING THE PROPANE DETECTOR 

(The propane alarm article details what went wrong when I tried to use an exact replacement of the original and what I finally had to do with a different one.) 

 

So that is it. Seems simple - is simple!  Obvious to all?  You might think so - but apparently not...

Replacing the Propane Detector Alarm

Way back after our last trip in 2017 in October we were not hearing the usual beeping that always happened when the battery switch in the Roadtrek was turned on that came from the propane detector near the floor on the front of the cabinet that has the internal water tank inside. This beeping was the alarm warming up and self-testing itself. As it beeped the little red LED on the front would flash at the same time and then after several beeps it would stop and the LED would go out - as it was supposed to. A power LED in green remains on to indicate that there are 12 volts going into the detector for it to operate.

The Propane Alarm is tested, simply, by using a butane cigarette lighter. The lighter is held up in front of the alarm unit and pointing the gas toward the vent opening in the alarm, the button on the back of the lighter is pushed without flicking on the ignition wheel. The gas goes into the alarm and the alarm starts to scream - loudly and continuously with the red LED flashing - until you clear the air of gas by opening a window and turning on the ceiling van to suck all the gas out of the van - and the alarm goes silent. This alarm is hardwired into the Roadtrek's coach 12 volt battery run electrical
 system.

After that trip I tested the alarm with the butane lighter and it was silent and no red LED came on. The green power LED was lit. These units have a life span from about five to a few more years. Unlike the CO Detector that has an audible signal that the life of the alarm has expired, the brand unit that Roadtrek used for the Propane Detector had no such signal. I decided to wait for the Spring to replace it - as we would not be traveling in it again until then.


At some point after 2011, Roadtrek stopped using a standalone propane detector alarm and a standalone CO detector alarm (that is located under the cabinet on the passenger side over the bed), and installed a single combination Propane/CO Detectors Alarm - in the same place that the Propane Detector is installed in my 2011.

When it was time to order a replacement I looked up who made this unit and found that it was a company in Canada by the name of Electro Systems, Inc.. I did a search for the propane detector to match the same one in my Roadtrek and found only two places that it existed for sale. One was the manufacturer and the other was an online retailer also in Canada. I decided I would order it from the manufacturer. I am not going to provide the model number - and you will understand why as I go along here.

I ordered the propane alarm from the manufacturer's website. We had to pay through Paypal with a credit card. The money exchange rate was automatically handled and we paid about $15 shipping. It took two weeks to arrive.

The unit looked exactly like the unit installed in my Roadtrek. This is a flush mount unit. The cabinet wall that this is installed in has a three inch round hole cut into it to mount the propane detector alarm unit into and the wiring comes up from under the floor of the cabinet through a thin slot along the wall below the hole. At first the installation looked simple. Remove the screws that held the old unit to the wall outside the hole. It was not quite that simple as the screws were under the face plate of the detector and two clips hold the face plate to the unit. The two clips are both pushed toward each other at the same time (several inches apart) and the plate is supposed to come right off. With the two clips pushed nothing happened. It appeared that after 7 years either heat or age caused the plate to adhere closely to the the back of the unit. It took a thin and sharp edge of a metal paint scraper to get into the crack that was barely visible and pry the face plate off while also holding the clips together. Eventually it came off.

I removed the screws and opened the cabinet door to follow the wiring. It went down below the floor inside, not through the slit that was there for the wiring but along the edge of the floor. The wiring did not pull up. It moved a little and then moved toward the side just a bit more and then stopped.

Note in the photo that the original install by Roadtrek was at an angle - that it should not have been at.

The wiring was not coming up and the connections were somewhere below. Looking around the floor edge in the cabinet it appeared that the floor panel might lift up and out. This cabinet also has a door on top that lifts up. Inside this cabinet is the interior water tank and a number of its electrical sensor connections above the floor. One must be very careful inside this cabinet to not damage this fresh water tank or the wiring connected to it which easily could be pulled off. I tried picking up the floor panel, found a few screws holding it down, removed those and it would move a little and then stop. This is all happening with me sitting cross leg in the narrow aisle between the cabinet I was working in and the cabinet on the floor on the other side.

I tried for quite some time to carefully remove the floor panel and then gave up when I realized that what was stopping it was the piano hinge that the front cabinet door opens out on. The inside of the hinge goes straight down to the floor all along this section of the floor and there was no way this floor board would come up without removing the hinge with a number of screws on the inside of the cabinet at the floor - where there is no room to turn even a slim screwdriver. No, I stopped there.

At this point I decided that I would cut the wire on the old detector unit right where it went into the back of the unit and attach a new wiring extending the length of the wiring that was under the floor. I would use end to end crimp connectors to do this. The instructions for the propane detector recommended these crimp connectors to attach the wiring of the detector to the 12 volt wiring of the RV. I had initially thought to attach the detector with the same plug and socket crimp  connectors that I had used for the CO Detector 5 years ago when I had to replace that unit (see article). Since the instructions were so definite about the end to end connectors I used those instead.

So I added about 10 inches of wire - just to have extra - to the wiring that was cut from the old detector and I attached end to end crimp connectors to the end of the extension wires that would be attached to wires on the new propane detector. It was then that I discovered that the hole in the back of the unit was too small to fit the connectors through - and this was necessary as the face plate and "guts" of the unit had to fit into the back plate that is screwed into the cabinet to hold it in place and the hole would be too small to pass the connectors through. I decided to just drill that hole in the mounting case larger. Then I got the wires out from inside through the hole, connected the connectors to the unit wires and got it all back together again. This was all easy, if it were not for cramped legs while doing this.  I thought I was done!

New install - using the same screw holes. You cans see the angle it is on from the original install.

I had Meryl turn the battery switch on and I saw the green power light light up on the unit. It quickly flashed red once and there was a half beep and then silent. This was certainly not working like the old unit - nor was it working the way the instruction sheet said it should which described the familiar several beeps and flashing red LED throughout as it warmed up and self-tested. I was not happy.

I got the butane lighter and decided to test the detector. I sprayed gas into the detector as I had done with the old one and it sat there silent. I repeated spraying gas. Still silent. I did it a third time and in about ten minutes of waiting it suddenly started to blare the alarm. Was this how it worked? I was even more not happy.

We cleaned up and shut the Roadtrek down and decided to let it sit for another day. The next day was cool outside. This was all in the Spring which here did not warm up very much each day. It was about 50 degrees F. I went into the RT - turned on the battery switch - no beeps, no red LED - only the green power LED was lit. Not only was I not happy. Meryl was also not happy. We both have never been fans of natural gas or propane. We don't use propane often in the Roadtrek - only when really necessary - but the tank still hangs under the back of the chassis - under the bed inside the Roadtrek - and we take the propane detector alarm very seriously. I tried a few more times on different days. I also contacted the manufacturer which turns out - at least in any contact - to be a one man operation.  I was told that perhaps the detector does not need to warm up. I questioned this because the temp inside and outside the RT was below 50 degrees most days at this point. I was told it was fine. I tested it a few more times with butane (also recommended in the written instructions with the propane detector). Each time it would take awhile for the alarm to go off. Meryl wanted it out! I emailed again - asking about why the unit does not beep when it is first turned on - per the instructions - and per our experience with the same unit for the past seven years. I was told that the beeps were silenced at start up (regardless of what the written instructions say) because they were annoying. I then asked then why no red LED either at start up. There was no answer for this. Then Meryl got involved in the emails because she wanted this unit out and returned. She did not want another (and I agreed) as this unit could not be trusted. That no one sells this unit any longer other than the manufacturer and one retailer and that Roadtrek stopped using this unit just after my 2011, should have told me something. Eventually he said to send it back (at my expense) and he would refund the purchase price. I pulled the unit out and sent it back.

I now had to find a replacement. The new combo unit that Roadtrek uses is made by the same company that makes the CO Detector that RT used in my 2011, Safe-T-Alert.  Looking at that combo model I would have had to cut a new rectangular hole into the cabinet and with the large round hole already there this was not going to work out too well. Plus I had just replaced the CO Detector which had aged out at five years.  I looked to see what propane detectors that Safe-T-Alert has and there is a "mini" unit that is just a propane detector alarm that was a surface mount. This meant that it would stick out some into the aisle - which is generally under the bed when we travel so as long as storage under the bed did not interfere with it, it would work.

The model of this Safe-T-Alert mini propane detector is MTI Industries 20-441-P-WT Safe T Alert 20 Series Propane/LP Gas Alarm - White. I made sure that it had all the same specs as the larger units. It does. There was nothing different about it other than size from the full size propane detectors from Safe-T-Alert.  I was able to find it on Walmart.com with free shipping directly to the local Walmart where I could pick it up when it arrived and I had it in less than a week. And the price was decent - and less than the original.

I closed the hole in the cabinet with a quarter inch thick oak plywood board - furniture grade cut to a a square to cover the hole. I wanted the new propane detector mounted just above this and drilled a half inch hole into the cabinet so that the wiring would easily pass through. This unit is easily detachable from a mounting bracket that is what is screwed to the wall and the unit needs to be no higher than a specified height above the floor - which was no problem with the location I was mounting it. In the future when this needs to be replaced (the instructions say every five years - and this unit will sound an alarm when it is aging out - just as the CO detector from this company does) all that is necessary it to pull the detector up out of the snug mounting bracket, cut the wires at the crimp connector that I used for this as well (the wiring that I had done all remained in place), attach the new unit's wires to the wire in the cabinet and done!  I tucked all of the wires down the slot that is below this in the floor - and it all fit down and comes up easily because of the extended wire I added. The original wiring still comes up through the slit between the floor and the wall - and still does not budge.

I think you should also know the rest of the story - because I always have told it like it is. After over a month after the returned propane detector was received at the manufacturer, we still had not received a refund. We had asked for our credit card account to be credited back through Paypal - a simple process that we have done ourselves for returns in our own small business. We tried emailing - no response. An email from us saying that if we did not hear back we would file a claim with the credit card company finally got a response but when I asked for the refund to be processed by him back ot our credit card, I was told that he could not do that - I had to. ???  I had to process my own refund to my credit card?  I answered that the only way I could do that would be detrimental to his account - requesting a charge back on a disputed purchase - and I did not really want to do that to him. I got no reply back and we waited another two weeks and contacted the credit card company and Paypal. We did finally get the credit approved, processed, and closed - just a week ago. This went on from May.

If you need a new propane detector for your 2011 or previous Roadtrek do not get the same as is there. The Safe-T-Alert mini model works well- does everything it is supposed to - it starts and flashes for a specified length of time showing it is self-testing (just as their CO Detectors do) and goes steady green LED once it is ready. I have tested it with butane from the lighter and it immediately went off - very loudly! You will not sleep through this if there is a propane leak. Once the air was clear it resets itself and is ready again.

Things should be easier than they are. Sometimes with Roadtrek things that should be simple - like replacing parts that wear out every five years are not. The CO Detector wiring was also not accessible. This wiring is not accessible. Perhaps it is done in an effort to make business for the dealer shops.