Sometimes one writes TOO SOON - An Unanticipated PART 2

When I finished the last article, all was happy and hopeful.  Had I only waited to write that article, as a few days later I went out to turn on the batteries, start the engine, and watch the voltage on my plug in voltage meter rise up to charging voltage (around 13.8 to 14.5 volt) showing that the new batteries charging. This, after all, was what pushed me to buy the new batteries - as the old batteries were not doing this.  Well... The voltage meter stayed at 12.6 volts - a decent charge on the new batteries but not right when the engine is running. We took it for a ride. We are getting too used to late night drives in the Roadtrek toward the end of Long Island. Long Island is 100 miles long and the only roads there that the Roadtrek is allowed to drive on due to its height. So we get on the Long Island Expressway (495) and to get to that we used the Seaford Oyster Bay Expressway - yes, it is referred to as the S.O.B. or more kindly the 135.  Long Island is shaped like a fish and we drive out when we do this drive we head east and turn around in the town of Riverhead which is located where the fish's tail starts - this is an hour's drive (when there is no traffic) and about a 65 mile drive for us.  The best way to charge the batteries in the Roadtrek while driving is two drive for two hours at highway speeds without stops. And that is what we did. When we got to the hour point I pulled over into a parking lot with the engine running and plugged in and looked at the voltage meter for the Roadtrek batteries and it read 12.6 volts - no charging took place. We turned around and headed home - and back at home - the same 12.6 volts and no indicator to show it was charging. Oh BOY!

As it happened the day before I decided to purchase a spare Sure Power bidirectional battery separator - the same model that I had in the Roadtrek - just in case I should ever need it. This is not an easy part to find and has to be ordered - I ordered it from a battery supply house in Washington State.  It would take three business days for it to arrive.

I stopped at the mechanic the next day and told him that I needed him to check out the engine battery, the alternator and to please test the battery separator which is not something he would usually do but he could do it.  He could take it the Tuesday of the next week. That weekend I printed out everything I have about the battery separator - and I also contacted an email Roadtrek friend who I met as a reader of this site. His name is Bruce.  The details about how the battery separator works is rather confusing as the wording seems to contradict how we know it works by experience. In fact, it turns out I was not the only one confused by this. 

Did you ever have what seems to be an unsolvable puzzle and become obsessed with solving it? Well that was me! I went back and forth with Bruce about how we each were interpreting Sure Power's description of how the separator worked. He had some good ideas about this but suggested I contact someone he has contacted before about his Roadtrek - Norm - who writes a blog site similar to ours but with its focus on the Roadtrek 210, which is a bigger version of our 190.  Bruce also sent a link to an article that Norm wrote on his site about the Sure Power Battery Separator. I read his article and he also seemed to find contradiction on how we know it works and how it is described as working.  I emailed Norm the details of what was going on and if he has any insights beyond his article. (Norm's site is linked to our LINKS section on the right column of the page - and has been for sometime - Roadtrek 210.) While waiting for Norm's response I sat down with Meryl who often looks at things purely logical - much more so than I do, explained the battery separator and gave her all of the documents I have about to read and come to her own opinion on how it works - and that did seem the most likely and logical. (This was no surprise to me - I knew she would see it differently than I was seeing it.) Norm did respond and we went back and forth with a few emails discussing what it might be - what it should be - etc.  We knew how it should work from shared experience in how it works - and that is what I needed to go by - despite the paperwork.

The new battery separator was delivered to the post office on Saturday and I had it in my hands on Monday. If it was needed, I had it ready.

We got the Roadtrek to the mechanic the night before.  And the next morning I eagerly awaited a phone call which by after 1:00 pm had not come. We were heading out of the house and I said to Meryl that we would stop there on the way.  She suggested that I bring the new battery separator and I put it in the car. When we got there, it seemed to be ready. The engine battery was bad - and not holding a charge. (I had thought that might be the problem.) He had tested the battery separator and it was connecting. He talked about the other things he did and handed me the keys.  I asked him if the RV batteries were charging when the engine was running. He said he was not sure how to turn on the battery switch inside and did not want not to push any buttons he was uncertain of. Understandable - he is not an RV mechanic.  We started the engine first, turned on the battery switch for the Roadtrek batteries, I put the meter in the socket and the batteries were not charging. He then decided that perhaps the alternator was not putting out enough current and went back into the shop to check on alternators.  He said we did not want a cheap import alternator and he only wants to put a good one in. He was finding the alternator he wanted to use but they were not available. We talked about the alternator some and then ... I just had a feeling that I needed to ask him if he did one more thing - when the engine was running - and the alternator showed 14 volts on the dash - did the Roadtrek side of the battery separator also show 14 volts. He told me he had not checked that and we all went back outside to the Roadtrek. He brought his meter - and he tested this. There was no current coming into the Roadtrek battery side of the separator.  He said we don't need an alternator. I told him that I had a new battery separator in the car and he might want to check that out.  He installed the new one in a few minutes - it is just three connections - a cable from each battery system - engine and Roadtrek - and a common ground - all there on the old separator. As soon as he had the new one in, the Roadtrek battery started to charge with the engine running, While the separator was connecting before the voltage was not going through it.  The new battery separator is what was needed all along. We were going to need the new batteries in the Roadtrek - both  RV and engine anyway - so while that might have been put off for a time - I was still playing Russian Roulette with RV batteries that were past due. 

As we were leaving he told me to drive the Roadtrek to charge both sets of batteries- the new engine battery and the Roadtrek batteries - or I could plug in the Roadtrek to charge both.  Since there were "strong storms" predicted that afternoon we decided not to plug in at the house and wait until that night for one of our late night Roadtrek excursions.  We did that and all was well. And since I have been checking and double checking and it is working.

My special thanks to Bruce and Norman! You both helped a great deal!!!

New Batteries for the Roadtrek - A Three Year Long Epic Adventure

 THIS ARTICLE HAS BEEN EDITED SINCE IT WAS FIRST PUBLISHED.  THE BATTERIES INSTALLED IN THIS ARTICLE HAD MAJOR PROBLEMS AND IN DEALING WITH THAT I COULD NOT TRUST THE SHOP THEY WERE PURCHASED AND INSTALLED AT AGAIN. THE NAME OF THAT SHOP HAS BEEN REMOVED.  

I WILL NOT REVEAL THE NAME - PLEASE DO NOT EMAIL AND ASK.

THE NEXT TWO ARTICLES WILL TALK ABOUT WHAT TOOK PLACE FOLLOWING THIS ARTICLE.  



Batteries do not last forever. The batteries that are the heart of the electrical system in my 2011 Roadtrek 190 Popular are two 6 volt AGM deep cycle batteries. And until now have been the original batteries installed by Roadtrek at the factory.  I have been told that these batteries last about 7 years - and the first time I started to question that the batteries were still good was three years ago.

At the time electrical things that should happen a certain way just were not happening. When the batteries should have been charging when driving - something that Roadtreks after around 2006 should do - was not always happening. It might take an hour or more of driving before the charging light was showing lit on the battery monitor panel in the Roadtrek.  There are a few reasons why this might happen - the RV batteries (often referred to as "coach batteries") are going bad, the engine battery is going bad, the vehicle alternating is going bad, OR a device put into the Chevy engine compartment by Roadtrek - called a Battery Separator - is going or has gone bad. The problem was not every time but often enough for concern. Let me explain the battery separator.  This is a device that has the engine battery connected to one side of it and the RV batteries connected to the other side of it. It is a "smart" switch - when the engine is running and the RV batteries need to be charged it connects the engine battery to the RV batteries and charges them through the van's alternator. It also will charge the engine battery when the RV is plugged into shore power - an outlet connected to the outside world of 110/120 volts of electricity or when the Roadtrek's electrical generator is being run which also provides 110/120 volts of AC electrical current. It is a nice little system - as long as it is working.  So - one of these things would have been the problem three years ago.

SO - I started checking things out as best that I could on my own. There are ways to test the Battery Separator - that I am not equipped to do but we go to a very friendly mechanic and for many, many years he has worked on our car so I spoke with him and if it came down to it he could test the separator for us.  When the separator is working and connects or disconnects there is an audible click. And I was hearing that click when plugging into shore power and I was pretty sure it was, therefore, working. But I was not fully convinced. So at the time I started researching buying a new battery separator of the same make and model that is there. This proved to not be quite so easy. I called two RV dealerships with repair shops on Long Island. Long Island is a wasteland for RVs - finding them here or service for them here is like - well, let's say not worth the effort. Basically they had not worked with RVs that had separators - they did know about battery isolators which are similar but work differently - but they could not get the one I had and were not really interested in working on my Class B RV - which they don't usually work on.  I started searching the internet for the part - as it is not hard to install - and my friendly mechanic could do that for me - and found that only a handful of retail websites around the US - none anywhere near here - sell this make and model. That was going to be what I would have to do if it came down to that. I also started asking on a group I was on what was the best - absolutely THE BEST - coach battery for my Roadtrek and without question from several more experienced than I when it comes to RV batteries the same answer came back - Lifeline batteries. One even said to me that they were "overkill" but they were the best - and they are expensive. And I need TWO.

The first thing I had the mechanic do is check the engine battery - the easiest of the things that needed to be tested and - hooray! He found that the engine battery - even though it started the van easily when started - had a bad cell and was only putting out less than ten volts - and he replaced it.  After that things started working - and with all of this in the back of my mind we continued to hear out int the great well known and kept traveling in the Roadtrek - for three more years.

Every so often things would hiccup but came back to working as it should be working - but the coach batteries were getting older - and this year at 8 years old I kept feeling that I was playing Russian Roulette with the batteries. I had figured that going into 2019 we would need to buy new batteries. And then the macerator problem happened - as I wrote about two articles back - and that took the money that we would have used for the batteries.  Before we left the dealer service when we bought and had installed the new macerator and macerator hose, I asked if they could get Lifeline batteries - and they said yes but they could not tell me a price - and would check. A week or so later they told me - $550 EACH battery plus labor to install! Oh BOY!  It was back to Battery Russian Roulette.

It seemed like maybe things would go the right way and with short day trips things were working as they should. Then we set out on a trip during Fourth of July week. Our procedure when we travel is just before pulling down the driveway and off, we start the engine of the van, turn on the battery switch - to turn on the coach batteries - and also turn on the RV refrigerator.   I get the van running and Meryl does the rest.  And I asked her to turn on the test button that shows battery level - which as the van is running should show the coach batteries charging - and that LED was NOT lit! OK - this has happened before and we drive a little and the light comes on, it is charging and all is well. That did not happen. And after a short time we pulled over to check again and it was still out and I could only figure that we either turn around and go home or we turn off the fridge - no meds in it this trip - as the main med for the fridge once started does not need to be refrigerated - and I sat there on the side of the road contemplating what to do - turn back or go on.  Meryl made the decision. We had paid in advance for one night of the three nights in the campground and we should go on and IF there were problems resulting for this all we could stay the night, the next day go to the Festival in PA that we go to every year that runs during Fourth of July week and just come home tomorrow night. Fine. And - have I mentioned this before - Meryl is ALWAYS RIGHT - truly!

We headed off.  We stopped at a rest area on the New Jersey Turnpike and I put the battery switch back on and with the engine running - after about two and a half hours of driving - there was a lot of traffic getting there - the charging LED lit. Wonderful! We left the fridge off to not push our luck and continued on the trip and stayed the three nights and four days - with the last two days with the fridge on to bring home some treats - but not too many because the week before our fridge at home died and we had to buy a new fridge which when delivered did not work correctly and a new, new fridge would not be delivered until we got home - unknowing if that one would work any better than the first. (Another unexpected, not affordable expense.)

We had reasons to start the Roadtrek when we got back from this trip - and the batteries did and then didn't show they were charging when the engine was running and it was three years back all over again. Only this time the research had been saved from three years past. While we were on the trip to PA I said to Meryl that we can't play Russian Roulette with the coach batteries any longer. That one day we are going to find ourselves off somewhere and these batteries - the ones I wanted - were not going to be found where ever we were stuck. She agreed. And the decision was made that we needed to find and buy and have installed the new Lifeline batteries.

I thought that this might be easy. Yes they were on a few websites. There are even dealers for these batteries on Long Island - all marinas. Long Island is "Boat Happy - RV Deprived". I started calling and emailing these marine shops. Yes they could get the batteries - each over $500 - no they could not install them. I went to the websites that sold these batteries and the price from at least two - across the country - was $329 each with free shipping.  I had thought that our friendly mechanic could install them - which he said he could - but he had been and was very busy at his shop with his usual business - including work on our small passenger van - and I felt that I should not impose on him - especially if I wanted the job done right away.  I also found on the battery manufacturer's website two dealers of the batteries in New Jersey. I contacted one - a dealer who is also a Roadtrek dealer who could get the batteries at just a little more than the $329 and he could install them - AS LONG AS  I waited for his next available service appointment at the end of September. I thanked him and said that was not going to work out for us.

The second shop in New Jersey was a little closer but not an RV dealership but rather an RV repaid and body work shop.  I contacted them and yes they could get the batteries - they would take about a week to arrive and they could take us to install them right after they arrived. The price was a little less than the $XXX each - two hours of labor to install - and I told them order them and thank you very much!

The batteries - for those Roadtrek owners seeking new batteries - Lifeline GPL-4CT - 6 volt AGM deep cycle battery. Here is a XXXXX . The shop we bought them from that installed them XXX RV in XXXX, New Jersey.

The batteries came in the time stated - one week on a Thursday. We set up an appointment for the installation on the coming Monday.  All was set! And then weather forecasts started saying that Monday and Tuesday in the coming week were going to have severe storms both in NY and NJ.  OK. I am never happy driving the Roadtrek in the rain and absolutely not in severe storms.  In that time when you would not like to wake up yet on that next day - Friday morning - this kept going through my head - Monday was not a good day to make this trip. And we called and postponed the appointment to Wednesday. The lady at XXXX that we were working with was incredibly nice - extremely helpful and had no problem moving the appointment. As it turns out the storms did come Monday and Tuesday and were more than severe - and caused a lot of damage especially in New Jersey and right in the county that this shop is located in.

Wednesday morning came. The charging LED did not come on to show the old batteries were charging when we left that morning - and was still not on over two and a half hours later when we arrived at the shop. The trip there took a long time just to get out of New York State.  There are two bridges that most be crossed to do that - I just love living on an island connected to other islands before you get to mainland U.S.A. - and the first and main bridge was closed in both directions as we heard as we were on our way to it - because of a car fire.  We were stopped in traffic bumper to bumper along the way and that took so long that by the time we got to the bridge - despite the traffic reports still saying the bridge was closed - we drove right across it without a problem.  We called ahead to the shop to explain that we would be later than we even had expected to be.

There were various ways in New Jersey to get to this place and the fastest route takes the Garden State Parkway. It seems that while this part of the Garden State Parkway is closed to trucks, it allows RVs - and more than one website - and our asking the shop when we made the appointment about taking this parkway  - said we could drive on it. With fingers crossed we did. No other RVs were to be seen but highway patrol cars passing us - we were not stopped.  As we got off the parkway and were near the shop there were electric company repair trucks everywhere. Red lights were out on the roads. Large trees were down. The storm hit there HARD!

The night before we left I wrote out everything that I know specific to installing new batteries in a Roadtrek plus where all the switches were and what does what.  I will include that at the end of this article. They would know all this anyway but they may never have worked on a Roadtrek before. One of the things I told them in person was that I wanted to know once the new batteries were installed that the batteries were now charging on the engine running as they are supposed to do.

When we arrived I handed that to the woman who was expecting us and we sat down to wait in their waiting room.  There was one other person waiting and we started talking as we were waiting. He said that the shop we were at had no electricity and they were running on generators - still able to do the work. The big lobby was a little warm - but there were big ceiling fans that made it comfortable enough. There was a big screen TV and chairs and sofas. They had display and sales racks of RV accessories and parts.  We spent the time watching the TV and walking around looking at what was on the shelves. At one point there was a loud roar of a big engine and they were working outside an open garage door to the side of this big lobby on a big Class A engine.  It was interesting but the diesel fumes were getting overwhelming and were also coming into the lobby so I went outside to get some air and saw that my Roadtrek was parked in an lane outside in the parking lot on the other side of a Class A. I could not tell if they had worked on it or not. We were there for about three hours or so between waiting for the Roadtrek to be taken to be worked on to when we were told it was ready. I asked if it was charging and was told that it was all tested and was working as it should be. Skeptic as I am I went outside - started the engine and the charging LED came on when I pushed the test button. For the moment I was happy.

It was a hot day. We were in New Jersey near a restaurant we like to eat at and decided we would kill the time between lunch and dinner in a large mall and a Barnes and Nobles bookstore and a Walmart before waiting for dinner. And that is what we did.

Someone reading this I know is thinking why didn't he just install these batteries himself.  The 2011 Roadtrek does not have a sliding battery drawer. The two batteries are fixed in place inside an outside access cabinet. These batteries weigh 66 pounds each. There is no way that I could lift one of these batteries much less remove the old heavy batteries and get two of these up and into place - plus there is no access to wire the cables to the back of the batteries. I am not sure how the shop did this. 

When thing seem well my head starts poking me to think hmm, maybe things are not all as well as they should be. Was it the batteries that needed to be replaced - which they did anyway - or is that battery separator at the root of what has been going on. The engine battery is three years old and it is rated for five years - and that should be fine - but those early morning wake ups and your mind starts working in high gear...  So I start looking things up. I start trying things. I know the new batteries are good and fine. Are they charging when the engine is running is what is bothering me. I go outside and into the Roadtrek and without the engine running I turn on the battery switch and push the test button and no engine running - the charging LED comes on. This is not supposed to happen - I think - or is it?  I have a volt meter. I check the voltage on the batteries and they are fully charged - a reading of about 12.87 volts - 12.8 volts is fully charged. Is this because they are new or did the engine charge them up to that on the drive home from New Jersey. I start researching again.

This is what I learned - and should have learned reading these same documents before - the engine does not connect to charge the RV batteries if they are over 12.8 volts. They do not need to be charged and the engine does not charge them. Seems logical.  If the batteries are 12.8 volts or above the C charge indicator LED will remain lit - even though no charging is taking place. (This is new to me for some reason - as I have believed from other things I have read that if charged fully the C LED will go out and leave the third up from the bottom LED lit showing that the batteries are within charged range. THAT IS NOT SO. If the batteries are 12.8 of over the C LED will be lit.)  Good to know - good to pass along and I am thinking a detailed battery separator article is coming here soon.

I went out for the next several days checking the status of the battery level. Five days later - I turned the battery switch on - no engine running - and had my volt meter plugged in for actual voltage - and the C LED was no longer on. The yellow G LED was lit and this is what I had expected to see all along. The voltage in the batteries - five days later - was now 12.75 - below 12.8 - and the monitor panel indicated that. I started the engine and right away the C LED lit up as it should! Happy me!

In all of this I made a decision with Meryl to buy a spare battery separator and have it with us when we travel. This way if that ever does go bad - and they do go bad over time - we will have it with us - we can find a mechanic to put it in - and I - not we - have to worry about it any more. I am in the process of doing that now.  With that I will have three of the Roadtrek weak spots covered that are not easy to just get repaired or replaced anywhere - new batteries, new macerator - and with this - a new battery separator to use when necessary.

Here are my new batteries -

 Here is the list I wrote up for the install to give the shop:

ROADTREK BATTERY CHANGE

1.            Two 6 volt deep cycle AGM Batteries in my Roadtrek are original from Roadtrek when the Roadtrek was built at the factory in 2011.

2.            The batteries are wired in SERIES -  pos on one battery to neg lug on the other battery connected together and the battery cables from the Roadtrek to the batteries are then connected to a positive on one battery and a negative on the other battery.

3.            The battery compartment is on the outside passenger side in front of the rear passenger tire. The square key opens the lock on the compartment.  In 2011 when AGM batteries started to be used by Roadtrek the sliding battery tray was discontinued. The tray is fixed.

4.            The Roadtrek has a TRIPPLITE 750 INVERTER/CONVERTER/CHARGER. I have been told that the Tripplite must be turned OFF while batteries are being installed.  The Tripplite is located inside the Roadtrek right behind the passenger side cargo door on the floor- it can be seen as soon as you open the cargo door – I have removed the door that sits in front of it.

5.            The TRIPPLITE ON/OFF switch is a slide switch on the upper right front – OFF is the MIDDLE position.  Left is Auto/Remote the default position and right is Charge Only.  Now it is set to Auto/Remote – if you want me to put it off I will OR you can put it off.  After batteries are installed return the position to Auto/Remote.

6.            Dip switches on the TRIPPLITE were set by Roadtrek for AGM batteries.

7.            The Battery Disconnect switch is inside the Roadtrek – at the entry door just past the passenger front door – it is on the wall below the ceiling on the right side of the monitor panel. It is OFF at this time.  Just push and let go to turn it on.  The test switch on the other side of the monitor panel will show a column of LEDs for battery charge. Turn the battery on if needed.

8.            There is a 12 volt DC socket to the left of the monitor panel to plug in a 12 volt voltage plug in meter. Battery Switch must be on to use this.

A Review of the Classic Roadtrek Electrical System

We get a lot of questions from readers about the electrical system in their Roadtrek. We always are happy to respond and answer what we can. In 2012 and 2013 I wrote a series of articles that explain the electrical system in our - and in what I would call a "classic" Roadtrek. Classic meaning a basic system that does not include the new electric options that Roadtrek has introduced since my 2011, starting in about 2013/14. This means no solar panels, no lithium EcoTrek batteries, no VoltStart, and no Engine Generator. This does include coach battery or batteries, shore power plug in, an Onan built in generator, an isolater or separator, an engine battery, and a three in one inverter, converter, charger or two units - inverter and converter/charger.

I will start with a very important tool in understanding the electrical system in these "classic" Roadtrek electrical systems - a computer simulation of the electric system. To use you must specify a year and model in the drop down menu that is at the bottom of the left column on the page. Select 2010 for years 2010, 2011, and 2012 - and possibly 2013. If you have a basic electric system in your Roadtrek beyond those years select 2010 also. IN ADDITION, there is a link at the top of the Simulator page for NOTES.  This will open a PDF file that gives a great deal of explanation. I did not create the simulator nor write the "Notes". I was sent this link by Roadtrek back in 2011 and the author of the simulator has updated the Notes since.

ROADTREK ELECTRIC SIMULATOR

Next, some history as I know it. Originally the electric system used a converter/charger unit and in some (and not in some at all) an inverter unit. The converter/charger charges your batteries and takes 110 volt power and converts it into 12 volt DC power. The inverter takes 12 volt DC power and changes it into 110 volt AC power.

During the 2005 model year, Roadtrek began to change this. Instead of two separate units, they started to install a three in one single unit that provided all three functions - inverter/converter/charger. By 2006 the changeover was complete. If you own a 2005 Roadtrek you may or may not have the single unit - you may have the two separate units.If you have a model year before 2005 you have the two separate units. If you have a 2006 you have the single unit. The single unit installed in 190s, 170s, and 210s is the TrippLite 750. In the Sprinter models, there is also a TrippLite but a more powerful unit - greater in wattage than 750 watts. With the larger unit you can run the microwave oven on your inverter. With the TrippLite 750 you cannot.

At the end of 2010, Roadtrek made another change. They stopped using wet cell deep cycle coach batteries and started using AGM deep cycle coach batteries. The change over is complete with the 2011 Roadtrek model year.  I know many with 2010's that got deep cycle wet cell coach batteries, but some have told me that their 2010 came with AGMs - likely late in the model year.  If you have a 190 and have two coach batteries. With the AGMs these are two 6 volt coach batteries wired in series.

I am not going to go completely though each component in the electrical system again, as the articles from 2012 cover these fairly well - and those articles, I have been told, have helped many. I am going to link those articles here so that it is all in one place. Start with the first introductory article and then read the rest from there. Here are the LINKS -

THE ELECTRIC SYSTEM - Intro

BATTERIES

THE GENERATOR

SHORE POWER

THE INVERTER

LOCATING THE INVERTER

CHARGING THE ROADTREK BATTERIES

IMPORTANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE INVERTER

LOW COACH BATTERIES AND THE GENERATOR

GETTING AN ACCURATE READING OF THE BATTERY VOLTAGE

THE BEST WAY TO KNOW YOUR BATTERY'S VOLTAGE 

PLUGGING INTO AN OUTLET THAT IS NOT 30 AMPS

To give you some brief information not covered in the above, your Roadtrek has either a Battery Isolater OR a Battery Separator. Each provides the same function BUT each works a differently to do this from the other. If you have a Roadtrek before 2006 (or 2005 IF your 2005 has the three in one inverter/converter/charger) you have a BATTERY ISOLATER. If you have a Roadtrek after 2005, you have a BATTERY SEPARATOR (specifically, a Sure Power 1315-200 Bidirectional 12 volt 200 amp battery separator. Either should be located in your engine compartment on the rear wall just about in front of the steering wheel. What these do is keep your engine battery and your coach battery(ies) apart and stop one from draining the other. The engine battery and the coach batteries are linked between these units BECAUSE while you are driving your engine battery will charge your coach battery - and similarly, when plugged into shore power or running your generator, your coach batteries will charge your engine batteries. (There may be some exceptions - see the simulator as this will show you exactly what happens when the engine is running OR the engine is off and you are plugged into shore power or running your generator- specifically for your year and model).  The change from a Battery Isolater to a Battery Separator came because of the TrippLite three in one unit which did not work correctly with a battery isolater. Be aware that the Isolater or Separator do not last forever. They can go bad over time. I have been told that when odd things start happening with your batteries and electrical system the first thing to do is have the isolater or separator checked. It can be tested to see that it is working properly. Now - just a personal observation. This past year I was not certain that the battery separator in my Roadtrek was functioning properly. I have since determined that it does. When I was unsure I set out to find the Sure Power 1315-200 Bidirectional 12 volt 200 amp battery separator to replace it. I assumed - never assume - that it was a common part. It is NOT. I contacted a few local RV dealerships (not Roadtrek) and they did not stock this - some had never heard of this particular model. I did locate it on the Internet at just a few RV parts retailers - in the middle and on the other side of the country. It is not a matter if it goes bad you can get a new one right away. You will wait to have it shipped to you or whoever is going to replace it for you. Interestingly, I have discovered the same thing about AGM 6 volt deep cycle batteries - 12 volt are easy to find - 6 volt are not.

Here are three links to help with the Sure Power 1315-200 Bidirectional 12 volt 200 amp battery separator -

LINK 1

LINK 2

LINK 3

Take your time reading the different articles referenced and linked in this article. Read them more than once. It takes some time to put all of this together and understand how this or that works - or even just what it is and does. 

So there you have it. I am still happy to help and answer your specific questions. It is best to use the Email Us link that is located in the column to the right on this page and email us directly rather than putting a comment on this article. It is much easier to interact with you this way and get the specifics. When you email, please remember to include the year and model Roadtrek that you have (or any RV - we get lots of questions on basics from non-Roadtrek or even Class B owners).

Camco Power Grip Electrical Protectant and Lube

For a long time I have been looking for some type of lubricant that will make the 30 amp power plugs and sockets come apart easier in the winter. The problem comes more from the plug and socket on the 30 amp RV extension cord than the Roadtrek plug on its power cord, but that has been a problem too.

When I hook up at my home in the winter to charge the batteries, I plug a 30 amp female to 15 amp male adapter into the socket of a 30 amp RV extension cord. The extension cord socket is plugged into the plug of my Surge Guard power protection unit and than then the Roadtrek power cord plug is plugged into the socket on the Surge Guard unit. Between the plugs and sockets I put Plug Dogs. (See my Plug Dog article.) This is done twice a month to keep my batteries charged.

In the summer months when it is time to put all of this away, the plugs and sockets pull apart with only a small amount of resistance. In the cold, it can be a real struggle to pull apart. The plugs stick in the sockets. Even with the Plug Dogs it can take a real heavy yank to get them apart - and there have been some days that some just do not come apart at all. So far, that has not been the power cord of the Roadtrek - and I can get that free with some effort and put the rest in the house and let them warm up enough to come apart. The socket on the 30/15 adapter can be very hard to come apart and I have had to pry that apart even after it has warmed. My concern all along has been if the Roadtrek power plug will not come out of the socket. I have thought that there must be something to use to prevent this.

I have asked on various forums and RV groups. I have been told dielectric grease will work for this by some, while others have said don't use dielectric grease. I have contacted two companies that make dielectric grease and have told that their product is not for this purpose. Yet, some have said it works with no problem. Some said just petroleum jelly. Others said WD-40. Others said never use anything petroleum based on electrical connections. I was about to either give up or take a chance when I found a product made by a well known RV supplies company that is made exactly for this purpose.

It is called Camco Power Grip Electrical Protectant and Lube - the lube part is what I want. Camco makes the RV 30 amp extension cord that I use. It has a big plug and socket each with a solid pull handle on them - "Power Grip" handles  - and this is "Power Grip" lube. The package and product description says that this is to lube the plug to come easily out of the socket (when you want it to). Other benefits are to protect from oxidation and to improve conductivity. It is for use with "all electrical adapters". It is made of a silicone grease mixture. No petroleum.  This may very well be dielectric grease - but it is not labeled as that.

I took a cotton swab and squeezed a small lump of grease unto the tip. A toothpick or a popsicle stick would work just as well. The label cautions about getting this on your skin, so while my inclination would have been to just put a dab on my finger and apply it, I was not going to ignore the warning. I took the swab and lightly coated the blades of the plugs including the ground post with the grease - each just before inserting it into the socket. I inserted the Plug Dogs where there were no plug/socket pull handles as I usually do. The plugs slipped easily into the sockets. When it is cold these take some effort to push them together - it was in the 20's degrees F while I tried the Lube. All lubed and connected. The 15 amp plug was plugged into the outdoor 20 amp socket on the house and power flowed. (The 15 amp plug was not coated - it never has been a problem pulling it out of the house outlet socket.)

I let the batteries charge for 24 hours. The next day was colder and snow was expected later in the afternoon. Without the lube I would have been very concerned about getting this all apart in this cold. I pulled the 15 amp plug out of the house outlet and proceeded to pull the plugs from the sockets. The one that has always been the hardest is the adapter socket from the extension cord plug and it came right apart. Great! Each plug pulled easily from the sockets. This stuff WORKS!

When the plug with the lube on the blades goes into the socket it is putting lube on the socket as well. I plan to put it on the next time I plug in as well. We will see how often it needs to be repeated. There are two more winter months to deal with and I don't want to find out the hard way that it needs to go on every time.

This product is NOT CHEAP. A ONE ounce tube cost me just under ten dollars on Amazon from a third party vendor. There were several vendors - some charging shipping and some not. I chose one that was about thirty cents higher in price than the lowest priced vendor offering free shipping because this vendor had a much quicker estimated delivery date than the lowest priced vendor. It was shipped the next morning and arrived three days later. Since this was coming halfway across the country that was pretty good!

If you have any problem with getting power plugs out of sockets, this works. It is Camco Electrical Protectant and Lube and its product number from Camco is #55013.

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We have no connection with the Camco company or Amazon. We have not been asked to review this product. We paid in full for the product from an Amazon vendor - and we have no connection with that vendor in any way as well.  

An EMS Unit For Your RV

Very often on various RV discussion groups and forums someone will ask what "surge protector" should they buy for their RV.  When I see this question I have an answer all ready for them and that answer is "You do NOT want just a surge protector for your RV, you WANT an EMS unit got your RV." So what is an EMS unit?

An EMS unit is an Electrical Management System. What this does as both act as a surge spike protector but more importantly it also will shut down all AC power going through the unit and into the power cord for your RV when it senses that the voltage coming in is either too high or too low. Why is this important? AC 110/120 volt power needs to flow in a certain range of voltage with a minimum and a maximum not to do harm to an electrical system and electronics connected to it. The damage that can be done when power flows out of that range can cost a great deal to repair. This unit will shut down voltage below 104 volts and above 132 volts. This may seem like an unlikely situation to occur but at campgrounds it can be quite common. At a crowded campground with a lot of RVs pulling off the power lines of the campgrounds I have seen voltage go below 110 volts. And on the other end, at campgrounds where there are few RVs at the campground which means few RVs pulling off power at the same time, the voltage is up near 130 volts. It does not take much change to put that voltage above or below the limits.

With one of these units you also get surge spike protection so should there be a sudden spike or surge or a lightening strike to the power lines the EMS unit will clamp down and cut off that surge or strike and not allow any damage to your electronics.

Both of these functions work differently. If a spike or surge comes through, the circuit physically breaks - in fact - like any surge protector that you might use at home, the unit will become dysfunctional in all ways should it need to clamp down on a spike of surge. If that happens what you need to do next depends on which company's EMS unit you own - and I will go into that later. If there is a voltage variation high or low, the unit will shut off power only temporarily until the voltage returns to within the proper range. The unit is still fully functional and it will turn the power back on when it is safe.

These units also test the polarity of the outlet you are plugging into and will not turn on if the polarity is incorrect. This means that the campground box outlet has been wired incorrectly or a wire has come loose or is off. This has to do with the outlet being properly grounded. This is also a very important thing to be certain of when plugging into any campground. If the unit shows the polarity to be wrong, you then need to go to the campground office and tell them and you will either need to be moved to another site with a correctly working outlet or campground maintenance will need to come and repair their outlet so that it is safe for you to plug into.

These units are not inexpensive. They sell for between $250 and $350 for a 30 amp unit and more for a 50 amp unit. They also come in versions that are portable - you plug the unit into the campground box and then your RV power cable into the unit OR that are hardwired. You have the unit installed into your RV's power connection which generally means cutting your power cable inside the RV and wiring the EMS unit between the power connection and your power cord. Both work exactly the same and offer the same protection. There are two main companies that manufacture these units - a company named "Surge Guard" and a company named "Progressive Industries". It is important to know that these companies also make just surge units that sell for much less - around $100 but even though these are made for RVs you are wasting your money if you don't buy the EMS model. The added protection that it provides is worth the money you will have to pay for it. You must think of this as paying for insurance. If you never need to make a claim it was there to protect you anyway - but when you need to make a claim on your insurance it pays you back - just like the protection an EMS unit gives if or when it goes to work and does its job.

The two companies units provide the same protection and do it equally well. There is one difference between the two companies that did not exist when I bought my unit which is a Surge Guard. That difference is the warranty and that warranty is what makes the difference in my reference above. The Progressive Industries EMS unit has a lifetime warranty which apparently covers the unit if it is hit with a surge/spike. The unit can be repaired with a replacement circuit board which the company will provide. I cannot say if they will provide this without charge. With the Surge Guard unit if a spike happens the unit must be discarded and a new unit be obtained for use. This would make it seem that the Progressive Industries unit is the preferred unit to buy. Perhaps.

There are two other non-performance dissimilarities to consider if buying a portable unit. The Surge Guard has a power cable with plug coming from the top and a power cable with socket coming from the bottom. Both plug and socket have a pull handle that makes it easy to pull the unit both from the power box and off of your RV power cable. In this regard the Progressive Industries unit has a very short power cable on top with its plug and its power socket is in the middle of the unit. There is pull handle on the plug or the socket. With how hard it can sometimes be to pull RV power plugs and sockets apart those handles actually are a big benefit. The other thing to consider is that the Progressive unit has a small ring on its power cable to put a padlock through and then get that padlock somehow attached to the campground power box so that this $300 investment will not be stolen. Surge Guard has its own system which is a purchased option to prevent theft. It is a box that locks around the RV power plug and the EMS unit's socket preventing anyone from pulling the RV cord and unit apart and taking the EMS unit. I have that box and while it can be a pain in the a** to put together and lock, it does work.

These are the models to look for from each company -

Progressive Industries  - Model EMS-PT30C (This is the 30 amp portable.)
Surge Guard - Model 34830

When you plug in the EMS unit there will be a delay before it passes power through to your RV. The delay takes about two minutes and 15 seconds - and those can be the longest two minutes and 15 seconds to wait to see if all is well and you have power. The delay is there as a feature and more protection should the unit stop power because of a voltage variation and not just start back immediately which if an air conditioner had been on and is still turned on, the power restarting will not damage the air conditioner.

I will conclude with a recent experience we had at a campground recently. We were plugged in and in for the night. The Surge Guard was connected and working. We were inside watching television. All of the lights were on and the air conditioner was running. We had been in for about an hour and a half. Suddenly, the television went off, the air conditioner stopped and when I looked over to the microwave the display was dark. The lights were all on - and it took me a minute to realize that the AC power was out - the lights stay on because they are powered - even when plugged in - by the coach (RV) batteries. Why was the power out? My first thoughts were that there was something wrong with the Roadtrek. I went through what it could be inside and was not coming up with anything. I then decided to go outside and see if someone walked through our site and tripped over our power cable pulling it out of the box. We had no power about ten minutes when I got outside and saw that the Surge Guard had power coming into it but the connection light was flashing. One of two things had happened. There was a voltage variation and the Surge Guard shut off power to protect us or the campground lost power and the power had come back on and the Surge Guard had to go through its delay to put power back into our RV. Power came back and all worked again. Later, very early in the morning, power went out again - and then came back on. I went to the office that morning and told them and they were aware that the power had gone out all over the campground - and we were assured that it would be fixed. Did the EMS unit come into play in this incident? Maybe. Did it remind me that one must always plug in at a campground using an EMS unit? Absolutely!

Some feel that they don't want to pay what an EMS unit costs? Some say that they have never had a problem. I am reminded of what Dirty Harry said - "Feeling lucky?" I know RV owners who have had had the EMS unit do its job and saved them from expensive damage. I also know of RV owners who wish that they had one when they found out what the repair bill was to replace most of the electrical system in their RV after a voltage variation. You decide. Maybe you will be lucky. Maybe you will not.

The Best Way to Know Coach Battery Voltage

On our first trip of this season, our first stop was at dealer service. (I will write about this trip in a coming article.) One of the things we wanted done was to have a 12 volt outlet that is connected to the coach or house batteries installed (the batteries for the RV, not the engine).  This was a project long in planning. It started with my idea to install digital voltage meter that would be connected to the coach batteries and the TEST button on the monitor panel. I went searching for how this would be done and it is relatively simple IF you know what wire is which and where it is connected - plus how to get to the wires.  The monitor panel - while it is similar to models made by the company that manufactures it, is made for Roadtrek by that company. Finding a schematic for the wiring and even knowing how to pull it from the wall without damaging it was not becoming a simple task. I knew that we had to be going to service anyway - if for nothing else but to get the generator oil changed for its annual change - so why not let the dealer service department do all this for me. I then started looking for a digital voltage meter that could be installed in the space that was available adjacent to the Test button and monitor panel. There are many to be found on Amazon and Ebay but most are designed to be installed into a dashboard and not the half inch wood of the Roadtrek wall in this location. I could rig something with a frame to have it surface mounted but then found this.

What is this? This is an Equus Innova Model 3721 Battery and Charging System Monitor. It is made for a vehicle battery and plugs into the 12 volt cigarette lighter or appliance outlet in a dashboard. It has an LCD digital display with both numerical voltage and a graph, and also LED lights. On the back is a chart that tells you what voltage levels indicate. The numerical voltage is the exact reading to within the accuracy of the meter. It also folds for different angle viewing. From reading the hundreds of reviews, this is supposedly one of the best of these meters and it was available through the Walmart website's "Site to Store" free delivery for just $13.86. It may be at local retailers but it was not in the several Walmarts in two three states that I looked for it. I ordered it and had it in five days.

 

This gave me a new idea. Instead of having a permanently mounted meter installed I could have a 12 volt coach outlet installed. This would enable me to use this meter and also have the outlet for any other 12 volt charger or appliance. Now, some of you with newer or older Roadtreks will say, "But there already is a 12 volt coach outlet in the Roadtrek!" Well not in the 2011 or the 2010. I am not sure when Roadtrek stopped including a 12 volt coach outlet or started including them again, but I don't have one. Newer Roadtreks have the outlet as part of the antenna booster and I could have done it that way also - probably on my own, but inside the cabinet over the TV on the  cabinet ceiling was not going to be very convenient - particularly since we keep the bed made up when traveling and opening that cabinet means climbing up on the bed. So I started looking for and found quickly a common and standard RV part - a 12 volt outlet - which it just so happened was in stock on our dealer's website's part's page. There were two to choose from. One the size of a light switch plate and the other much smaller - small enough to fit in where the monitor panel is.  A discussion with Meryl and it was decided. I sent an email to our friend at dealer service - good friends after all of the time we have spent with her over the four years of our visiting her at the service center - and told her my plan and included the part number and a photo of the vicinity that I wanted to outlet installed. She said she would show the photo and the part to the tech and see what he said. A couple of days later, we were good to go - she had ordered the part and we just had to wait the month for our appointment (more about that in my article about the actual trip). 

So once at service I showed her the spot that I wanted the outlet, she said it may need to be moved slightly lower which was fine and we left it to her and the tech to have the outlet installed. Five hours later - there were other things to be done - I had an outlet. 

 So here is how it all works - turn on the coach battery switch and just plug the meter in!

This reading is two and a half days after getting home from our trip. When this reading was photographed the "C" charge light was still lit on the monitor panel (this stays lit from a couple of days to a couple of hours after the batteries have been charging), but flickered (usually an indication it is about to drop to the next LED). A few minutes after I pulled the meter from the socket, I pushed the Test button and the panel LED was now on the "G" for "good" third up from the bottom yellow LED. I put the meter back in and the reading now was 12.4 volts. Still very good. Sitting without driving or charging even with the battery switch OFF, there is drain on the battery(ies). 

When I plugged the meter in during the trip while plugged into shore power with the batteries charging the reading was 13.8. During the trip during the day while on batteries only - with the fridge on DC (AC/DC only fridge) readings were 12.6 to 12.8. We were driving during each day and plugged in each night. Finally, I am free from the monitor panel LEDs - constantly guessing what the "G" LED and the second "F" (red) LED mean. No more guessing. 

I had a cap from a 12 volt socket splitter and it fit perfectly so now the outlet is not open when not in use. Not really necessary but a nice touch!

So without the Innova meter you are left with the option to take digital readings in the engine compartment at the Separator or Isolator. This is so much easier. 

After I purchased the Innova I came across a small plug in LED digital 12 volt meter on Amazon for only $3.00 - with Free Shipping. I wondered how this could be sold for only $3.00 and still be shipped free and I decided to take a chance and buy one of these also. The estimated delivery date was a month and a half after the purchase date. I thought that someone could put this in their pocket and walk it to my post office from just about anywhere in the country in less time. It shipped three days after purchase and arrived one week after purchase. The meter was shipped from China -in a brown mailing envelope and inside the meter was in a bubble wrap pouch. The postage on the envelope was from China. This little LED meter works. It lights up with bright red LED readings - the difference is that this meter has only three digits where the Innova meter shows four digits on the display. Used one after the other, the LED meter read the battery voltage as 12.4 while the Innova read the battery voltage as 12.42. If the Innova only had three digits, the  readings would have been the same BUT had the reading on the Innova been 12.49 and the LED meter still read 12.4 that would be somewhat different - though still not dramatic. So if you want a three dollar plug in digital 12 volt meter, search Amazon.

And just in case it needs to be said - I have nothing to do with the companies that makes these meters or this 12 volt outlet.  I get nothing from anyone and I give no "official" endorsement. If there is something good that is worth sharing I share it. 

A Better RV Extension Cord

I am interrupting the series, "It Isn't All Peaches and Cream" once again for an article that is more timely and of use to all who own a Roadtrek or an RV. I have written before about my RV extension cord. It is a 30 amp, 10 gauge M/F extension cord that is 30 feet long that I use when my Roadtrek's power cord is not long enough to reach the power pedestal or my outdoor 20 amp house outlet at home. We have rarely needed it at a campground but we do need it at home and that is where it gets monthly use.

 

This winter with temperatures incredibly colder than we have had in this area in many, many years we found a big problem with our RV extension cord.  There is a lip around the socket - made to securely hold the plug in place, I suppose, or to keep moisture out of the connection, but that lip combined with our Plug Dog handle on  both the extension cord socket and the Roadtrek power cord plug in the cold was not seating together properly. This was causing all types of problems including the connection coming apart or when pressured together to stay connected, almost impossible to pull apart in the frigid cold - even with the Plug Dogs. This extension cord socket has always been a tight connection.

After one cold night of panic trying to pull these apart standing in the cold and ice, I decided that I had to get a better extension cord. I have seen RV extension cords with built on handles in RV stores and in Camping World. Of course, snowed in we were not going anywhere near one of those soon. I started searching the internet for anywhere close that had it or if I was available site to store from the Walmart website. I like shopping on the Walmart website with their site to store service. They sell things that are not found in the Walmart stores and they ship for free to any Walmart store that you select. Even better is that you can return the item to any Walmart store for a full refund.

At first my search on the Walmart website was not coming up with anything other than the cord that I already have. A general Google search brought up the cord that I was looking for with a link to the Walmart website. Apparently, RV extension cord was not bringing it up on their site- it needed to include the manufacturer's name - Camco. There was the cord that I felt should be better. It has a large plug and socket and both have solid handles that are part of the plug and socket.

This is a 30 amp, M/F 10 Gauge RV Extension Cord. The cord matches the power cord on the Roadtrek - same gauge. The cord is five feet less than my original cord and is 25 feet long. Twenty five feet is plenty. The name is Camco Power Grip Extension Cord 30 amp Model 30-30 RV. As you can see this cord's socket base is flat - no Plug Dog is needed on the socket side of the connection as there is the nice BIG yellow pull handle. The Plug Dog on the Roadtrek power cord plug allows the two flat surfaces to attach properly. The price is less than the original RV extension cord that I have. This cord costs only $36.21 - free shipping site to store. My old cord costs $50.

It took ten days to ship and it arrived on the date promised. All I had to do was go to the store's Site to Store desk and pick it up.

Now, I have a better RV extension cord for my Roadtrek. This cord comes also in 50 amp for larger RVs. There is also a 50 foot length 30 amp cord with the same large handled plug and socket that sells for $64.38 if one needed a cord that long.

No matter which RV extension cord that you use, if it is cold outside, the cord will be stiff - as will the Roadtrek power cord. It will not unroll easily nor will it roll back up easily. I now keep the extension cord in the house where it stays warm until it is needed and after use in the cold it can warm up to roll it back up. We only put it in the Roadtrek if we are uncertain about the distance to the pedestal at the campground - and when we have carried it "just in case" we have not needed it. IF you are planning on staying at a friend or family's house when traveling take this cord with you. Outdoor outlets are not always conveniently placed to driveways. Combine this cord with a good 15/20 amp plug to 30 amp socket adapter and you can plug in safely. 

I am not sure what I will do with the old cord. One thought that I had was to cut away or grind away the lip on the socket. The plug and socket on that cord are lighted - nice if you want to know that it is plugged into power, but not really necessary. I am not sure if removing that lip will interfere with any wiring. Another thought is to purchase the same handled socket that is on the new cord, cutting the socket off of the old cord, and install the new socket on the old cord. I have seen that socket at RV parts stores. That is something to consider when it is warm again. Will it ever be warm again? Remind me that I asked that when it is 100 dF on July Fourth!

Now, just one word about RV extension cords because I have heard before to just use any household heavy duty 15/20 amp extension cord. I have also read and heard about the fires that have started when those cords get hot because they are overloaded. It was recommended to me and I recommend to you - if you need to use an extension cord on your Roadtrek or RV always match the gauge of the extension cord to the gauge of the power cord on the RV. For $36 why would anyone take a chance?

FIELD TEST -

I fit all of the connections - using the old extension cord plug as a stand in for the Roadtrek power cord plug - inside before going out into the cold with the whole thing just to make sure things fit and came apart easily. The 15/20 amp adapter pulled off the extension cord plug easily easily. The extension cord socket was not as easy and it took holding on to the socket's handle and giving a sharp, quick tug on the Plug Dog handle to get them separated.

We had to plug into the house to charge the batteries and we were lucky enough to have a dry 38 dF day. (Imagine being lucky to have a 38 dF day!) I plugged the plug of the extension cord into my dog bone 30 amp female to 15/20 amp male adapter and plugged the adapter into the outlet inside our very small, screened porch and ran the extension cord out the aluminum screen door and down to the Roadtrek. The Roadtrek power cord plug got one of the Plug Dog handles and plugged that into the extension cord power grip handle socket. They went together easily. Because there was a lot of ice on the ground toward the front of the van that if it melted would come down into the connection I used Velcro straps to hang the connection from the frame of the Roadtrek's little door that covers the power and city water connection.

The connection worked well and the Roadtrek batteries showed that they were charging on the monitor panel. I checked that there was power in one of the Roadtrek's inside outlets and all was well. The Roadtrek remained plugged in for its usual charging time of 12 hours.When we went out the temperature was 27 dF. The Roadtrek plug and power grip extension cord socket came apart with a sharp pull much easier than the plug and old extension cord socket ever did in the cold. The cord came into the house to be kept warm and manageable for the next time it is needed. Maybe by the end of March the temperatures will be much better! I certainly hope so!

Low Coach Batteries and the Generator

We have experienced something of interest twice when attempting to exercise the generator for its two hour monthly exercise that has occurred when the coach batteries have been low. By low, I mean the battery monitor on the all reads two LEDs from the bottom - which on the panel is labeled "F" for "Fair Charge".

Here is what happened when I last went to exercise the generator. Whenever I start the generator I start the van engine to give a little extra boost to the generator starter. I started the engine and then went over to the wall monitor panel and Battery Switch and turned on that switch. I next pressed the Test button on the monitor panel to check the batteries - two LEDs up from the bottom. These are the two red LEDs.  I then pushed the generator start button, which in my Roadtrek 190 is just adjacent to the left of the monitor panel, and the generator started to rumble to start. On this occasion, which was after very cold temperatures and snow and ice just a week before, it took three tries to get the generator started. Each time until the third try, when I took my finger off of the generator button, after leaving it down on the button for a short while, the generator stopped. On the third try, it started. This is not unusual especially if the temperatures are cold and the generator has not been run for a time - and the generator this time had not been run for a month. Once the generator has started and is running I turn off the van's ignition. After the generator starts, I always let it run for at least three minutes before I put any load on it. I pressed the monitor panel test button and the battery monitor was up at the top to the green LED "C" or Charging led.  Good. The batteries were charging. The generator was running. The van engine was off. All was well - or so I thought.

To exercise the generator in the warm months, I use the air conditioner to put a load on the generator. It is recommended that at least a half load be applied when exercising the generator and with my Onan 2800 watt generator, the air conditioner is a good half load. When it is cold, I use an electric house heater plugged into a wall outlet inside the Roadtrek. Most electric heaters are 1200 to 1500 watts and this is also a good half load appliance to exercise the generator.

Usually - with the coach batteries showing three LEDs up from the bottom - up to the yellow LED labeled "G" for "Good Charge" - once plugged in with the generator running, the heater starts when turned on - fan and temperature control up to high for maximum load. This time the heater started as expected. When a load goes on the generator the sound of the generator changes - which it always does. All is still well I thought. I pushed the test button on the monitor panel and the battery level still showed all the way to the top green LED. Good. The heater was running. Good. And then the heater shut down. No power in the heater. The generator was still running. I pressed the Test button on the monitor panel and the green LED was flashing and then it went off. I tried to turn on the heater again, and it would not start - still no power (or not enough power). This has happened before - and with a different heater and once with the air conditioner. The heater worked fine inside the house. It was not the heater. The generator sound started to change to the sound it makes with no load (a higher pitched sound). I pressed the test button again and the battery level was back up to the C charge green LED.

I tried a few more times to turn the electric heater on. It would start, the generator sound would change - lower rumble sound - and then after a few moments the heater would cut off again - and again the LED battery panel with the Test button pressed showed a flashing charge LED which would then go out to the G yellow LED indicating that the batteries were not being charged with the generator running. I gave up at that point trying to run the heater. I just let the generator run so that it would charge the coach batteries. At that the monitor panel showed Charging and I let the generator run for its two hours just that way. The batteries did charge.

So, it is important to know that this can happen if your batteries are low when you run the generator. One would think that if the generator is running, once started, even with out any power in the batteries it would just keep running and delivery its 2800 watts. This is not the case. If the batteries are low in the way that the Roadtrek is wired from the generator to the Tripp-Lite inverter/converter/charger which controls all electricity through the Roadtrek regardless of the source, the generator will deliver its power to charge the batteries before it will deliver enough power to the outlets and appliances to run them. While this is just an inconvenience during a generator exercise, if you were in need of 110v power inside the Roadtrek while out, you would not have it - until you get the batteries up to charge. All the more reason to make sure your coach battery or batteries (depending on Roadtrek model) are kept charged.

What can you do if this happens and you are in real need? One thing you can do is drive the van. Two hours of driving will bring the coach batteries up to full charge. If you can't drive, then just run the engine - with nothing using electric power being used inside the RV. According to the author of the Roadtrek Electric Simulator in his Notes file, the engine if run for a half hour even at idle will give enough of a charge into the coach battery(ies) to bring them up - not to full charge but enough.

Good to know and to keep in mind. And as the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy says on its cover, "Don't Panic!" Something I have to keep reminding myself when things go wrong. (Usually, it takes Meryl to remind me this.) And as the singer, Meat Loaf says in a very little known movie that he was in a long time ago playing a rock band roadie, "Everything works if you let it!"

Questions from Readers - Important To Know About the Inverter

Here is another question from one of our readers. In the process of answering this question I learned something new (to me) and it is something that is very important to share.

Here is the question emailed to us -

" If you are not hooked up to  any external power, and not running the generator, and your battery switch off, but the inverter switch is on, will you have AC power at the inverter outlets? I do, and for the first time ever that I can remember, the battery was on low just today. A big surprise to me!!"

When I read this question I began to write that this had to be something wrong. If the battery switch is OFF how could there be 12 volt power to invert to 110 volts into the outlets connected to the inverter? I proceeded to write an answer about all of the things that could be wrong. I also went into an explanation of what the inverter wall switch is and does (which I will include here in this article). Then I decided before I sent off my answer to go to the Roadtrek Electric Simulator and do a simulation test of what happened in the Roadtrek that initiated this question. I tried it with two Roadtrek year's models. The first simulation was done for a 2010 Roadtrek 190 - with the Tripp-Lite 750 watt inverter/converter/charger all in one unit. The second simulation was done for a 2004 Roadtrek 190 - with no Tripp Lite but a separate inverter unit and a separate converter/charger unit. The third and last simulation was done for a 2010 Roadtrek Sprinter - which has a different Tripp-Lite all in one.

The results that I found surprised me. With the BATTERY SWITCH OFF and the INVERTER WALL SWITCH ON - and no other power sources such as generator of shore power, THERE IS 110 volt POWER IN THE INVERTER CONNECTED OUTLETS for both the 2010 Roadtreks - both the 190 and the Sprinters. (The 2010 models are the last models represented in the simulator but with the 190 models up to 2013 and maybe 2014 the wiring and components are the same (providing none of the new ETrek like electric components have been installed.) The Sprinters without ETrek components are the same as well. They contain a Tripp-Lite all on one inverter/converter/charger.

The 2004 Roadtrek 190 simulation found what would be expected - with the Battery Switch OFF and the Inverter Switch ON there is NO POWER in the inverter connected outlets. None of this applies to Roadtreks before 2006.

For the Roadtreks 2006 and after, if you leave the Inverter Wall Switch ON, and the battery switch is OFF you are drawing power from the batteries into the outlets and anything that is connected to those outlets - the TV, the Home Entertainment Center unit is draining your coach battery (ies). To me this is a very bad situation. While most of us have been believing that if the battery switch is OFF there is no 12 volt power coming through, it is coming through the Tripp-Lite and into those outlets.

I have read many comments and questions about the Roadtrek regarding mystery drains on coach batteries. Now we know one more place to check if your batteries are draining. Also be aware that with the Inverter Wall Switch ON even when the Battery Switch is OFF those outlets are LIVE and 110 volts can give quite a jolt! The bottom line is only turn on the Inverter Wall Switch when you want to use the power in the inverted outlets right then. When you are finished using those outlets with the inverter, turn off the inverter wall switch. I know that some keep the Inverter Wall Switch ON when plugged into shore power to take advantage of the Tripp-Lite's power protection functions. If you do this, make sure to turn that Inverter Wall Switch OFF when you unplug from shore power!

I have explained the Inverter Wall Switch in the Roadtrek before but I will explain it here again. The wall switch on the inverter is actually a remote control switch - there are three states of the inverter - Off, Charge Only, Auto/Remote. These three states are found on the switch on the inverter unit itself. That switch on the inverter unit is generally left on the Auto/Remote position. The wall switch remotely controls those last two functions - Auto/Remote = which is the function that includes sending inverter power to the wall outlets - and Charge Only which puts no power in the outlets but allows the inverter's charger function to charge the batteries when running the engine, plugged in, or running the generator. With the wall switch ON you are in Auto/Remote function. With the wall switch Off you are in Charge Only function. Tripp Lite has its own remote control panel with more functions and indicators, but Roadtrek made its own  switch and attached it to the remote port on the inverter unit (the port looks like a network cable connection and uses the same type of plug and wire). The Tripp Lite panel is larger than the Roadtrek switch and is available as an option from Tripp Lite.

If you do not have a Tripp-Lite inverter, test this for yourself with a volt meter and putting the Inverter Wall Switch ON and the Battery Switch OFF and carefully test the outlets connected to the inverter for power. 

Extreme Winter and Charging the Roadtrek Batteries

This winter has been extreme all over the country. In the west there are droughts, in the mid-west, central and eastern states there is extreme cold and deep snow. This has is the worst winter that Meryl and I have experienced with the Roadtrek. Since we got her it has been cold and it has snowed but there has been nothing like this. As a result the temperatures are taking their toll on our Roadtrek's batteries.

I wrote in a recent article, "After Winterizing", I spoke about our schedule to keep the batteries charged. I have a schedule to plug the Roadtrek into shore power at our house on the 28th of every month (28th chosen because of February) and I exercise the generator for two hours on the 15th of every month. This schedule has been fine until now. With single digit and below zero temperatures day after day, and wind chills that bring those down even lower, I have been going out at least once a week to check to see that the battery level is still on the green LED on the monitor panel inside the Roadtrek. Suddenly with these temperatures combined with what seem like regular snow storms, a once a week check is not seeming to be enough.

I looked at the battery monitor panel a week ago before a snow storm and everything looked fine. The 28th came on the day of another snow storm and when I was able to get into the Roadtrek to check the batteries the level had dropped to the red LED second from the bottom. This one is labeled "F" for Fair which is an indication to me that the batteries are getting too low and need to be charged as soon as possible. You really never want that monitor to read at the bottom red LED - "L" for Low.

Had this been an ordinary, no snow, normal winter temperature day - normal being upper 20's into the mid-30's or higher - I would have pulled out the RV extension cord, plugged that into my Surge Guard Power Protector, and connected that to the Roadtrek's cord - which needs to be pulled about four feet out for the two electric cords to reach the outside outlet in the rear of my house. This would have been plugged into that outlet and the Roadtrek would have charged for 12 hours. That is our usual routine.  But the snow was coming down and would not stop until the next morning. The night temperatures were going into single digits. And the forecasts for the coming days were as uncertain as they always are. All of this and the Roadtrek's batteries needed to be charged.

Let me stray a moment to talk about Roadtrek 190 Populars from 2011 on and why I have to rely upon the Roadtrek's battery monitor LED panel which I know some of you will say is highly inaccurate and does not provide a much needed digital reading of the battery voltage. In 2010, the Roadtrek 190 came with two coach battery compartments. All were outside - one was located behind the rear passenger wheel on the side of the van and one was located on the same side in front of the rear wheel. The one in front of the wheel contained a tray on which the battery slid out. The one behind the wheel opened with clear and easy access to the battery that was there. In 2011 for some reason, Roadtrek changed this design. For one thing, they changed from using wet cell batteries to AGM batteries for 12 volt coach power. The new design put both batteries into one battery compartment located where the former compartment was in front of the rear wheel. From the outside you see the same compartment door as before, but once you look inside the compartment, there now sit two batteries on a fixed platform that no longer slides out for access to the batteries. Without getting deep into this compartment there is no access to the battery terminals and therefore no convenient way to touch the test leads on an electric voltage meter to the terminals and read what the actual voltage is. There are also no 12 volt outlets inside the Roadtrek (not since several model years earlier) to be able to use that to connect a voltage meter to - another way that many with such outlets read the actual voltage of the coach battery(ies). So what I am stuck with are the LEDs on the battery monitor panel. There are estimates of the battery level and the LEDs - this is from the Notes for the Roadtrek Electric Simulator - "The “C” light will be on if the voltage is above about 12.7 volts, the “G” light comes on at about 12 volts, the “F” light comes on at about 11.3 volts. The “L” light will come on with less than 5 volts." Notice that the "L" is less than five volts. This why you never want the battery to fall that low - it will potentially damage the battery and charging the battery(ies) back will take much longer.  I know that one Roadtrek owner with a much older model was able to wire a small digital voltage meter into the back of the monitor panel and have the reading show on this meter affixed to the wall adjacent when pressing the test switch. This is not something that I am confident in doing myself. It has been suggested to tap into an empty fuse spot in the fuse box, but when I looked there are no accessible empty fuses spots and certainly no ground wire that is accessible - and I am not about to remove the fuse panel to look for what may be available inside. So, again, I rely on the LEDs which under ordinary circumstances - in that normal winter world that may or may not exist any more - the future will tell.

So - here I am, in the snow and I am not sure how close to that second LED going out and the bottom LED remaining the Roadtrek actually is. I had to charge as soon as possible.

The next day when the storm was over, the temperatures were not much better and they would remain that way for at least two days with maybe or maybe not a rise after that. First I had to shovel the path out of the house, the driveway, the sidewalk, and attempt to shovel a path to the rear of the house that had not really been shoveled since the last storm a week before. I got enough cleared in the back of the house to get to the outlet, but all the while I was realizing that I would have to deal with the other problem of charging the Roadtrek in the cold - the lack of flexibility of the Roadtrek's power cord and the RV extension cord. The RV extension cord was secondary. I could just drag that into the house after use and warm it up to put the long, wild snake of a cord into a store-able condition. The Roadtrek's power cord is located in the lower outside storage compartment and comes out through what has been called a "mouse hole". The mouse hole is located on the rear side of the compartment and comes out into the next covered section where the city water connection is. The "mouse hole" is made up of a flex opening - a round of plastic that is cut like a pizza in the middle. The Roadtrek plug is pushed through this plastic with the flex fingers holding it on place and not permitting any little critters to crawl in around it into the storage compartment. On the outside of the "mouse hole" is a flip cap with space inside the "mouse hole" outer cup for the plug to sit in. We learned the hard way that getting the plug through those so-called flex fingers and into that cup section looks a lot easier than it actually is - and this is in the heat of summer - and you never want that plug to pull back into the storage compartment. In the winter there is no flex. And in just regular winter cold, the cord is difficult to pull out and even more difficult to push back in. Now with this so-called Arctic Vortex this cord if it came out too far from the opening was going to be a problem getting back in - and with this weather, I was not going to let this plug just hang out after the charging was finished. There was no way that I was going to pull it out enough to meet up with the RV extension cord to reach the backyard outlet.

I have two outlets outside and one outlet inside a small porch where our house's side door is. The second outside outlet is in the front of my house - close to the Roadtrek, but to get to it one must go into the front garden and the front garden is where two winter storms' snow was put when shoveled. This outlet was not an option. The outlet inside the porch would work - as long as it was not connected to any wiring for other electric service inside the house, and I had to check the circuit breakers to see if it was - it wasn't and surprisingly it was a 20 amp outlet. The only thing that shared that line was the porch light which does come on with an electric eye but that would not be a problem with 20 amp service.

I don't really know how much amperage the Roadtrek's charging system uses. Once the Roadtrek is plugged into shore power and nothing else is turned on inside the only thing that comes on other than the Tripp-Lite 750W Inverter/Converter/Charger is the microwave (at least the microwave display panel lights up). In my Roadtrek with the all electric refrigerator the fridge turns to 110 volt power automatically but the dial inside is turned to Off. I tried looking at the Tripp-Lite specs but did not see this listed.

When we were finished shoveling and after a short break in the house for feeling to return to our fingers, we went out to charge the Roadtrek. My first thought was to charge for a several hours into the early night and then charge again longer the next day with hopes that maybe it would be warmer. Our usual routine of charging twelve hours straight involves a trip outside at about 2 am to shut it all down and put everything away. With our late night schedule this is not a problem normally. Yes, we are late night people and 2 am is not an issue for us at all. But at 2 am there were temperatures in the low teens predicted and that would be a problem. After we got it all going we decided together that we would just leave it charging overnight until the next day and let it charge for 24 hours - no problem with AGM batteries and no problem with the Tripp-Lite that would allow the charging to continue without a problem is the Roadtrek was always plugged in.

We decided to forget for this time plugging in the Surge Guard. The power from our house should be fine without it. We worked the Roadtrek power cord less than a foot out of the "mouse hole" pushing out from the inside. The cord was very cold and very stiff.  The RV extension cord is kept on a reel inside the porch an while it was cold in there, the cord did roll off the reel to the floor of the porch - maintaining the coils which it does not do when it is warmer. We got out the Plug Dogs - the pull handles for RV plugs. These are one of the BEST things that we have bought for the Roadtrek. Over and over they prove their extreme value and benefit! We also got out the 30 amp female to 15/20 amp male adapter plug cord. I went inside the Roadtrek and turned on the battery switch - necessary before plugging into shore power. A Plug Dog went onto the plug of the extension cord and one went onto the female socket of the adapter. The adapter has a plastic pull on the socket but with this cold I was not going to trust that not to break if pulled on. Two more Plug Dogs were used between the Roadtrek plug and the RV extension cord socket. I am so glad that I ordered four Plug Dogs when I got them. The Roadtrek plug was hard to get into the extension cord socket and I was afraid to force it as I did not want them to be stuck together due to the extreme cold. I managed to get them together and the adapter plug was plugged into the wall outlet in the porch. The porch door when closed would have to sit on the cord and the door would sit out about an inch open as a result - letting a lot of cold into the porch. I went  into the Roadtrek to check that all was well and the batteries were charging (shown as C on the panel monitor when the test button is pushed). I pushed the test button and... Nothing. Oh boy! Now we had to troubleshoot.

We don't often use that porch outlet and perhaps it was not working. The light attached on the same line works fine. We found a lamp and plugged it into both sockets on the outlet and the lamp lit. The extension cord and the adapter were tight together. This put the problem either inside or outside of the Roadtrek. I first went to the Roadtrek plug which we had hanging in mid-air plugged into the extension cord. As soon as I touched them, they fell apart. There was the answer - simple but now, to get them together as they need to be I was going to have to push them together hard - which even in the summer means put them on the ground and using a foot to apply enough pressure for them to mate. This is only a problem with the heavy rubber socket on the extension cord. The Roadtrek plug plugs easily in and out of a campground 30 amp socket. OK. If I had to force them together I would have to hope that they would come apart - and hopefully, in this cold the Plug Dogs would work as well as always. I got the plug and socket mated, put it on the ground and gently with my foot pushed them firmly together. Meryl plugged the adapter into the house outlet and I went in again to check. Yes! The test switch showed Charge on the battery LEDs. I decided to unplug the microwave. While the lit display panel should not make a difference I decided that it was easy enough to just have the Tripp-Lite charger circuits running on the 110 volt electric circuit.

We left it to charge for 24 hours. Twice after plugging in I checked that all was well inside and it was still charging. I was. The next day was sunny and felt warmer though the thermometer was not showing any better than the day before. We went out about 2 pm to shut it down and put it all away. The Plug Dogs did their job well on the Roadtrek plug and extension cord socket that sat out all night and with a sharp yank the two separated. Thank goodness! The adapter and extension cord was not as easy and it took several yanks to get these apart even though they had been inside the porch all night. They did come apart and I thought how good it was that I did not rely on just one Plug Dog and the adapter's little plastic pull ring that is screwed like a hinge around the upper half of the socket. With a little effort I was able to get the RV extension cord back on the reel. The Roadtrek plug was pushed reluctantly (on the cord's part) back through the "mouse hole" and into the cap. Done.

Lessons learned. In extreme cold, checking the battery voltage level once every week may not be enough. I will be checking twice a week in temperatures like this. With this weather it may be a good idea to charge the batteries twice a month and will check the level just before exercising the generator and then plug in the next day if the battery is low. The generator does charge the batteries but not enough in the two hour run. With this weather consider moving to a warmer climate - but heck, it snowed and froze over in Virginia, Georgia, and parts of Florida this past week (the week I am writing this).

Asides - you can charge the Roadtrek coach batteries by driving. This is fine for some - maybe many - but we live on a four lane avenue that has steady traffic. It is difficult to pull out in good weather. I am not sure that the area of the cut into the street is even large enough for the Roadtrek to get in and out of - plus I would not want to drive it now on the roads here that are thick with salt - and where would I drive for two hours?

If the coach batteries are too low or dead, the generator will not start - even if you run the van engine as a boost. If you think of the Roadtrek as a shelter in the event of a power outage which can happen during these cold, snowing, and iced conditions, it is no good to you if the batteries have no charge.

When you charge the coach batteries you are also charging the van battery. This is important in the winter as well!

If you have a Roadtrek with the new solar panel option, the batteries will charge in the light of day from the solar panel and inverter charging circuits. This is one big benefit to the optional solar package. 

Well, I had intended this as a short article. It is longer than I anticipated but adding the whys and what happens to this small tale is perhaps more important to you all than the tale itself. Stay warm!